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Community Discussion, 4th of December

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Joined: 01 Dec 2004
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Location: Kajaani, Finland

PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 2:14 am    Post subject: Community Discussion, 4th of December Reply with quote

Session started 5th of December, 2004.
Timezone was gmt+2 (past midnight for me).
Typo corrections removed and altered the original messages due to correcting.
Some less important messages removed to shorten the log (nothing important).

[00:00] - Time, hours then minutes. 24 hour clock.
<name> - Name of person doing the message, followed by the actual message. "@" Infront of name means "Operator" or "Developer" as you wish, "+" means voiced person which has been given right to chat and finally, if there is no character inside the tags, it means it was a private message to a developer.

[01:15] <@Kalorian> Crafting, me and thewreck had a meeting about this and were discussing how it could/should work in Daria.
[01:15] <@Kalorian> We came up with several different ideas, and one of the ones I want to discuss right now as it has so many possibilities.. is the 'idea' of having Recipes
[01:16] <@Kalorian> We were considering 2 paths.. Recipes that are bought or found and then learned by double clicking (think WoW) and those that are not known. Adding room for the common crafter.. and the crafter thats like figuring things out.
[01:16] <@Kalorian> I would like input on this system.. why it would not work.. why it would work etc..
[01:17] <+JelloCube27> i think that would be hard to implent
[01:17] <+JelloCube27> and people would just exchange recepies
[01:18] <+JelloCube27> buying them and experimenting them would often be useless
[01:18] <@Kalorian> Ok perhaps I wasn't clear - Recipes that can be bought and found are known recipes
[01:18] <@Kalorian> but the other possibility was having hidden recipes
[01:19] <@Kalorian> where players have to figure it out.. trying to combine different elements together
[01:19] <@thewreck> (known: Everyone knows then, but the charachter doesnt.)
[01:19] <@Kalorian> there would be no purchased recipe.
[01:19] <+JelloCube27> still, wouldn't buying them be useless
[01:20] <+JelloCube27> as you can just ask the community
[01:20] <@Kalorian> Well thats simple you would need to learn the recipe
[01:20] <@Kalorian> the ones that require a recipe would need the recipe in your 'knowledge base'
[01:20] <@Kalorian> while those that are hidden you would have to keep track of yourself
[01:21] <+Foldyman> I'd like the recipes to be in the form of items.
[01:21] <+Foldyman> You'd double click it, as mentioned, and you'd learn it.
[01:21] <@Kalorian> yes those would be the 'known' recipes
[01:21] <+Foldyman> It'd be place in a recipe book, and you can refer back to it.
[01:22] <@Kalorian> That would be the 'idea' with this system
[01:22] <+Foldyman> The combinations that this offers..
[01:22] <+Foldyman> Would you be able to tell a person a recipe, and then they can craft an item?
[01:22] <@Kalorian> I would have to say no, but this could be something we discuss further later.
[01:23] <+Foldyman> I'd also prefer it to be level-restricted too.
[01:23] <+Foldyman> So a newbie can't be given a recipe to craft an awesome item.
[01:23] <+Foldyman> It's not really realistic either.
[01:23] <@Kalorian> Noted, anything else before I bump the next person in?
[01:24] <+Foldyman> Why would monsters drop random scrolls with recipes?
[01:24] <+Foldyman> ...maybe, buying from vendors..
[01:24] <+Foldyman> Or.. have a combination of the two recipe ideas you suggested.
[01:24] <+Foldyman> You have to find the combinations yourself.
[01:24] <+Foldyman> But once found, they are 'transferred' to scroll form.
[01:25] <+Origon> well, the way i see it, if all recepies are hidden, we wont find out even half of em - as proven by Akarra A1a. If some recepies are known and some are hidden, it gives people the ability to make at least SOMETHING while others can experiment
[01:25] <+Origon> the way ive seen it done elsewhere and i liked it, is that you're given quite a few of the recepies, yet outside of the game
[01:26] <+Origon> also, if all of them are hidden, wouldn't they be extremely hard to find ?
[01:26] <+Origon> since theres a LOT of imaginable combinations
[01:26] <@Kalorian> yes, thats the key
[01:26] <@thewreck> depends on the logic of them. And the game being consquent.
[01:27] <+Origon> well, if i may refer to WiA, diff # of lion fur - different items
[01:27] <@Kalorian> From what we've been working at dev wise (small spoiler :P) is to try and combine those that like solving puzzles and those that want to just play the game and kill things
[01:27] <@thewreck> WiA was NOT consequent.
[01:27] <+Origon> so you could have 3 furs + shield, or 4 furs + <other item> or some other combination
[01:28] <+Origon> because just thinking about it without knowing the RESULTANT items, its extremely...time consuming
[01:28] <+Origon> like you're given a piece of fur and it can possibly make several hundred items
[01:28] <+Origon> yet only 1-2 are actual items
[01:28] <@Kalorian> Origon - the idea for the unknown combinations and recipes would be because they are very powerful
[01:29] <+Origon> yet i think the combinations shouldnt be like insane
[01:29] <@Kalorian> We aren't going to be using WiA's crafting idea, as you can see with these discussions
[01:29] <+Origon> i know, and for that i am glad ;p
[01:29] <@Kalorian> Origon - if we keep the idea.. trying to craft the best items in the game will require the first group of players to figure it out and solve it
[01:29] <+Origon> i like the idea of having bought recepies for lower items and unknown for higher
[01:29] <+Origon> but for middle, there should be some guesswork as well as a hint
[01:30] <+Origon> or at least knowing if there ARE other items you can craft from em
[01:33] <+Xofia> Well, I like the idea of known "common" recipes as items, allowing you to keep them in a ingame database of known things to craft, but having to keep track of many unknown "special" recipes might be a little troublesome. Would it be possible to say... buy a piece of paper and a pen, then make a recipe scroll to commit to your database?
[01:33] <+Xofia> Though... that would defeat the idea of recipes that can't be bought and traded... though, once a recipe is found, it's usually spread through the whole community pretty fast. Still, you'd still have the thrill of being an alchemist and trying to craft together things that make sense to find the hidden recipe in the first place.
[01:34] <+Xofia> Also, I'm just toying with this idea here... but how about a sort of patenting system? That would allow the first discoverer to keep a recipe "private" for a set amount of time... say... a week? Actually, I'm not sure that would do any good at all... oh well, I'm done, unless you have something you want to throw back at me.
[01:34] <+Xofia> Sorry, I was a little distracted with something and forgot I was about to cut up my comment -_-
[01:34] <@Kalorian> Perhaps once you figure a recipe out it goes in your Unknown Section of your recipe book
[01:35] <@Kalorian> Xofia - as a discoverer of an item
[01:35] <@Kalorian> or recipe
[01:35] <@Kalorian> its your job to keep it secret
[01:35] <@Kalorian> its your choice to spread the word
[01:35] <@Kalorian> personally you can control the market if you keep it hush ;)
[01:36] <+Xofia> That's true, I suppose. Still, once someone sees a new item has been crafted, they'll probably have a good idea of what you did to make it.
[01:36] <@Kalorian> not if I can be clever :)
[01:36] <@Kalorian> as well as the other designers
[01:38] <+Enquillion> In Morrowind there are various herbs and stuff you can use for alchemy. Depending on your skill level, you can identify various magical properties in a herb/mushroom/you name it. Will there be something similar here which might help us with the unknown recipes? For example, two crafting items that both have the potent ability to restore mana, combined they make a mana potion.
[01:40] <@thewreck> Do you mean that you have 1 muchroom with mana+ and a herb with mana+ and you combine those and get a potion?
[01:40] <@thewreck> would it be the same to combine 2 mushrooms?
[01:40] <+Enquillion> that's up to you to decide, I'm just talking about the hint itself
[01:41] <@Kalorian> thewreck - he is talking about the potion
[01:41] <@Kalorian> thats already made
[01:41] <@Kalorian> the person could detect
[01:41] <@Kalorian> what ingredients are in it
[01:41] <+Enquillion> no, though that is a good idea too
[01:41] <@thewreck> well, if that is the same, what point is there with different items with same effect?
[01:42] <+Enquillion> hey, it was just an example
[01:42] <@thewreck> okok.. =P
[01:42] <+Lunatra> There is a possibility that you could develop some very interesting craftwork by combining the two systems (known and unknown)
[01:42] <+Lunatra> Like you find or buy *part* of the recipe,
[01:42] <+Lunatra> but to finish or upgrade it you might need to
[01:42] <+Lunatra> figure some things out yourself
[01:45] <+Foldyman> About this patent system.. it could be posted on a community news board. People can take the recipe, and use it, but a small amount of money is given to the recipe discoverer. This would increase with how good a thing could be crafted.
[01:45] <+Foldyman> I also think that this recipe finding and learning should be restricted by intelligence (or a similar stat) - this is like a mini-introduction of merchant class. (I also hope that unknown recipes are at least logical.. and do not involve items that seem to have no relation to the crafter item.)
[01:47] <@Kalorian> Foldyman - some of the items resources that would be required for the crafting items would have a history
[01:47] <@thewreck> foldyman, of course, this could be done if you enforced it with a guild or something
[01:47] <@thewreck> kill everyone on sight wearing that item, unless they give you money.
[01:47] <@Kalorian> you would need to understand different items history where you could think X resource wouldn't fit with an item but knowing its history (library)
[01:47] <@Kalorian> you would know that certain items resources aren't what they appear ;)
[01:49] <+jellocube27> Just a little thought to go along with Xofia's conceptual patent system. Perhaps, if not just to satisfy the community a bit, the discoverer of a recepie would be able to name it (within reasonable limits, of course- noone should be able to name a 'waraxe' a 'blakoolashooblup')?
[01:50] <+jellocube27> I mean, that's what happens when you develope a product for the first time in reality, isn't it? You get to name it..
[01:50] <+jellocube27> Doing this may even help to develop a sort of imaginary culture around the game, e.g. calling a 'waraxe' a 'staff-blade', or something of the such.
[01:50] <@Kalorian> any disagreements from the community about this idea?
[01:51] <@Kalorian> It favors the 'first-wave' of players though
[01:51] <Origon> maybe not name, maybe your name will be added behind the recepy so everyone that uses it will know who first discovered it
[01:52] <Enquillion> I don't like the idea of naming items unless it was strictly moderated
[01:52] <Enquillion> and even then I would probably be quite indifferent
[01:53] <Enquillion> though naming your OWN first copy of the item
[01:53] <Enquillion> that I would like
[01:53] <@thewreck> comment, Might result in after 6 months, when mayby the inventors have left the game, noone has any idea who those players are anymore, and it looses in importance, just a name, noone knows.
[01:53] <@Kalorian> Ok so we've moved from naming the recipe itself.. to possibly having your name on the recipe.. to being able to name your first item of it
[01:54] <Enquillion> if I manage to craft a staff of power first, I get Enquillion's Staff of Power, whereas other crafters just get a Staff of Power
[01:54] <+niklasson> Having unknown recipes is a good thing, but maybe for people like me who likes puzzles, NPC's, quests, etc. could give hints in some form on recipes or items that exists.
[01:54] <+niklasson> These hints would perhaps mean that the recipes are not required to be overly logical and if it's well incoporated into the story and the world it adds to the feeling of the world.
[01:55] <+niklasson> Maybe different players can get different hints, which means that people have to cooperate to find the recipe.
[01:55] <Enquillion> I agree with that, I'd like some item recipes to be derivable from the story of the game
[01:56] <jellocube27> imagine discovering the recepie for the one ring- not only making an item, but unlocking monsters and story as well!
[01:56] <@Kalorian> Comic relief :)
[01:57] <@Kalorian> Give me one moment as I prepare for next topic and organize the ideas
[01:57] <@Kalorian> channel unmodded for a short break
[01:57] <Foldyman> Having your name on the recipe would be the safest option, it would require no admin moderation. Being able to name your own weapon would be bad.. moderation needed. Perhaps give the weapon a different look, like tinged red.
[02:08] <@Kalorian> Anyways the next topic.. you guys are gonna love.. heh or not
[02:09] <@Kalorian> I had an idea earlier today about crafting and other characters
[02:09] <@Kalorian> Some of those ideas were sparked from the Community Discussion in the forums right now
[02:09] <@Kalorian> I think I may have an idea that would bridge the 2
[02:09] <@Kalorian> and I can see a LOT of pros and cons with this system.. but I want to see what you guys can come up with.
[02:10] <@Kalorian> My 'idea' was to combine like crafting skills with like characters. You gotta think about the character you are roleplaying and such.. if you are a Warrior running around your not gonna be sitting behind a desk making little potions to sell on the market
[02:10] <@Kalorian> Your gonna be finding ways to enhance your weaponry or armor, better yourself as a fighter (most likely.. always exceptions)
[02:11] <@Kalorian> For instance if you were a Mage, you could create potions
[02:11] <@Kalorian> If you were a Ranger, you could make bows/arrows
[02:11] <@Kalorian> Fighter (Paladin) - Make Armor
[02:11] <@Kalorian> Fighter (Warrior) - Make Weapons
[02:12] <@Kalorian> Now the questions, I can see coming up.. are.. Is this fair? How does this effect the market? and how would it be accepted?
[02:14] <@thewreck> (and what room gives it to roleplaying?)
[02:15] <@thewreck> (and would you crafting side always be as powerful as your fighing side)
[02:16] <+Isithrathiel> Couldn't the Paladin make potions also? More healing potions as opposed to the Mana Potions...
[02:16] <@Kalorian> It could be argued
[02:16] <+Isithrathiel> Have a variety of "jobs" including some made up ones that will make the game more fantasicial (made that up)
[02:17] <+Isithrathiel> Not the same old blacksmithing and potion making
[02:17] <+Isithrathiel> Maybe with the new jobs weird items no one has seen or heard of before come up
[02:18] <+jellocube27> Well, when you make a character, are assuming that's where he is mid-life. that his childhood and teenhood lead up to his current profession.
[02:18] <+jellocube27> because of this, the class you choose shouldn't just show that you grew up be a certain kind of fighter, and say his exact limits. instead, you should be able to choose major traits- such as your ability scores and skills- and let the system categorize you.
[02:18] <+jellocube27> I think you should have complete control over who your character is from the very beginning- a 'ranger' is like a stereotype of fighters, and choosing it just LIMITS what you can do. Limits are bad!
[02:19] <@Kalorian> all games have limits based on its abilities and systems
[02:19] <+jellocube27> well, there would be limits
[02:19] <+jellocube27> you'd be able to spend points, of course
[02:19] <+jellocube27> but choosing a class shouldn't block out certain abilities and traits
[02:20] <@Kalorian> I liked the idea of coming from a 'background' of a profession
[02:21] <@Kalorian> perhaps it would be the first thing the person would pick after race.. what he did/worked as etc.. and he could be given that profession
[02:21] <@Kalorian> but if he chooses to withhold the profession idea then, then he follows down the 'stereotype' profession of the class he picks
[02:21] <@Kalorian> something to think about
[02:21] <+Enquillion> I find it to be restrictive to roleplaying. You are assuming that the character's style of fighting determines what he does for a living; he has an affinity for archery, he develops an affinity for fletching.
[02:21] <+Enquillion> Why can't it be the other way around, someone with an affinity for fletching becomes a good archer simply because he has a lot of arrows to train with?
[02:21] <+Enquillion> Though I don't want to take it as far as your crafting abilities determining your class, but... I don't like the reasoning behind the restrictions.
[02:23] <@thewreck> (To add, Should any player be able to choose Any crafting?, if not?, what would restrict in in that case?=
[02:23] <@thewreck> (if not the fighting class)
[02:23] <+Enquillion> I pick stereotypical craftign skills for my characters, it's not a big deal to me
[02:23] <+Enquillion> so if mages are better enchanters, just fine
[02:24] <+Enquillion> but I think others might disagree and have soem controversial mix of crafting skills
[02:24] <@thewreck> but then again, do you say that because you just dont care about crafting?
[02:24] <+Enquillion> well I care about it, it's not my main focus, but I do
[02:24] <@Kalorian> hehe ok
[02:25] <+niklasson> A problem as I see it is that some classes might be able to do something that other classes need, but that might not be the case for all.
[02:25] <+niklasson> For example: A ranger makes bows, and a paladin makes armor. A ranger might need armor that the paladins are producing, but the paladin might not need a bow.
[02:25] <+niklasson> Basically, I think that the supply and demand between the classes should be balanced, because there probably will be quite a player-controlled market.
[02:25] <@Kalorian> We want to work towards a PC oriented market
[02:26] <+niklasson> yes and it's important that it is balanced between classes
[02:26] <+niklasson> I think
[02:26] <@thewreck> (agreed that it would be dull to only be able to craft equipment your own class uses)
[02:26] <@Kalorian> I agree to some extent
[02:26] <@Kalorian> but thats like trying to balance your classes so they all do the same damage
[02:26] <@Kalorian> its not always sensible to make a Mage as Powerful as a Warrior
[02:27] <@thewreck> not really
[02:27] <@Kalorian> or vice versa.. sometimes these classes are just suppost to be better than the others in same ways
[02:27] <@thewreck> its just that every craft should be able to export craft to other classes
[02:27] <@thewreck> else that class has nothing no offer.
[02:27] <+niklasson> well I just don't want the paladins to have control over the market
[02:27] <@Kalorian> hehe
[02:29] <+Xofia> Whoever suggested having an array of choices to choose about what your life from the moment you were born to the day you became player reminds me of several MUD games I tried out years ago... I liked the idea, but sometimes the choices were too... simple; they didn't fit my character. However, that has absolutely nothing to do with what my main comment is.
[02:29] <+Xofia> Anyway, having these certain crafting skills for certain characters would likely mean subskills - as in mining, smelting, fletching, etc. The whole crapload of skills in RuneScape, you could say. Now... how would you implement those skills? Macros have always been a huge problem with such a system...
[02:30] <@Kalorian> Xofia - we have several ideas floating around
[02:31] <+Xofia> Or am I just getting the wrong idea, and it'll still be grabbing materials off monster's corpses and combining them at a npc?
[02:31] <@Kalorian> but as this isn't a Q/A I can't comment on what we are considering if we are considering anything :)
[02:32] <+Stant> My thing is this, I don't think crafting should be based on the character's choice of class. I think it should be based on a set of professions. Each level you get another point to add to that profession or add another profession to your list with.
[02:32] <+Stant> Basic crafting such as throwing some herbs in a flask and mixing them is fine for everybody, but knowing the right amounts for the best possible effect would take skill in that profession.
[02:33] <+Stant> Like I said on the forums, just because you know how to crush someone's head with a hammer, doesn't make you good around the forge.
[02:33] <@thewreck> (or how to even extract the right effect from the herbs?)
[02:33] <+Stant> correct
[02:34] <+Stant> Just that if something was based on class I would think it would be appraisal of items.
[02:34] <jellocube27> i think stant's idea is great
[02:34] <+Stant> a fighter would know better prices for swords, but not spells...
[02:35] <@Kalorian> thats natural stant, no code needs to determine that :)
[02:35] <@Kalorian> and agreed.
[02:35] <@Kalorian> Ok the last topic is about Re-engineering
[02:36] <@thewreck> (AKA - backwards engineering)
[02:36] <@Kalorian> it has been discussed about the possibility of being able to smelt down items and such that you pick up
[02:36] <@Kalorian> picking up the 'base properties'
[02:36] <@Kalorian> from the item.. and using it for another assembly
[02:37] <@Kalorian> For upper items that have added elements that are rare.. would not come back in its natural form and would not be usable.. but the base properties of the item could be reusable
[02:37] <@Kalorian> thoughts comments?
[02:37] <@thewreck> (smelting, taking apart, pulling the threads, whatever suits the material)
[02:37] <rogerk> You mean like taking a sword and make metal bars of it?
[02:37] <@Kalorian> yes.
[02:38] <Enquillion> I think it's a very interesting idea, especially if it can transfer enchantments and such
[02:38] <Enquillion> not really smelting the item, but stealing the enchantment and putting it elsewhere
[02:38] <Enquillion> it's really interesting for crafting and perhaps for some items the only way to create them is to steal components from already existing ones
[02:51] <Enquillion> I think that pretty much any attribute can be extracted, but the process itself may require a high enchanting skill and various components to be used, pretty much like in chemistry you use various elements to isolate one element from a solution or a mixture
[02:39] <@Kalorian> I don't think the advanced attributes of an item should be able to pulled away from an item
[02:39] <@thewreck> (it would possibly bypass the whole, mining, woodcutting and so on, aspects of things, by supplying res from normal loot)
[02:39] <jellocube27> on the topic now, I think it's a great chance to incorperate some loot into dungeons that isn't just standardized gold pieces.
[02:39] <FoldyzZz> So could any sword be smelted down?
[02:39] <@Kalorian> Its possible
[02:40] <+Stant> I can see that working for base items, but if it was magical, like a flame sword, keeping the flaming property if it was just a magical enhancement or if it was a gem that gave it that property... I'm kind of at a loss.
[02:40] <@thewreck> (an example: Smelt down Zatras dagger = unique zatra metal. zatra metal x 3 = zatra sword
[02:41] <+Stant> if it's through gems you could just take the gem out and pit it elsewhere right?
[02:41] <@Kalorian> Yes, gems could be reused I would think.. but the gems power would be less
[02:41] <@Kalorian> decreased I would think
[02:41] <@thewreck> or gone
[02:41] <Enquillion> I think that pretty much any attribute can be extracted, but the process itself may require a high enchanting skill and various components to be used, pretty much like in chemistry you use various elements to isolate one element from a solution or a mixture
[02:41] <+Stant> or if it's through a magical enhancement, would each new piece retain the full enhancement or just a percentage?
[02:42] <@Kalorian> if it was a magical enchancement I think it would disperse
[02:42] <@Kalorian> as the item was being re-engineered
[02:43] <BudMan> id like a spell or skill that changes the item instantly into gold so i don't have to walk all the way back to town
[02:43] <@Kalorian> I can't agree with this, going back to town to trade and such is good.. I heard too much of Akarra where people
[02:43] <@Kalorian> didn't have to go back to town
[02:43] <@Kalorian> that hurts the overall market
[02:43] <@Kalorian> especially if we do a high PC Market
[02:44] <Enquillion> as for what Stant is saying now, I think that if the fiery enchantments uses a fiery gem, then the gem is emptied of power once the attribute is applied to an item. However, the enchantment can be ptu back into the gem with re-engineering. One can find these "dull gems" or just keep the old, depleted one
[02:44] <Enquillion> that's if one wants to use a container for the element, direct enchantment transfer might be used as well
[02:44] <@Kalorian> (thewreck should like that idea lol)
[02:44] <FoldyzZz> If it's a super rare steel sword..
[02:44] <FoldyzZz> If it's melted down.
[02:44] <FoldyzZz> The stats it transfers should be the same as any other steel sword
[02:44] <FoldyzZz> Ie, it's the material of the weapon that is melted down that dictates the remade weapons power.
[02:44] <FoldyzZz> Not what form the material took originally.
[02:45] <@Kalorian> I agree, if you melt down an item that does 100-200 damage.. and craft a normal steel sword with the elements it does the normal steel damage
[02:45] <@thewreck> agreed.
[02:46] <+REvolv3R> hmm well how about if some materials can hold more enchantment power than others? like... flaming sword can have 50points of enchantment ability and if you smelt it, you dont get the "flaming" -thingy, but you get the material with the 50 points enchantment ability. Then afterwards when you have made something of it, you can enchant it with stuff that doesnt excede the 50points enchantment ability.
[02:47] <+REvolv3R> and i agree on the point that when remade it haves the metals stats... but maybe a blacksmith or some expert in the are could make it better?
[02:47] <@thewreck> different materials have different enchantment holding ability. noted.
[02:47] <+REvolv3R> i mean that you dont get the _magic_
[02:47] <+REvolv3R> but the same ability to have magic
[02:47] <@Kalorian> I would say there could be crystals that could hold magical attributes
[02:48] <@Kalorian> while being seperate from gems themselves
[02:48] <+REvolv3R> yes, but if like zatras dagger has 10point ability and 1-5 fire dmg
[02:48] <+REvolv3R> when you smelt it and make a new weapon of it
[02:48] <+REvolv3R> it doesnt have the 1-5 fire dmg
[02:48] <+REvolv3R> but it has the 10point ability
[02:49] <rogerk> If you had a magic sword woth say fire damage shouldn't a enchanter be able to move it to say a normal axe?
[02:49] <+REvolv3R> and then you can enchant it with 1-5 fire dmg if you want
[02:49] <@Kalorian> I like the idea of a difference between crystals & gems that can store points of magic
[02:49] <@Kalorian> from enchanters
[02:50] <@Kalorian> spells would have points etc.. and an item could only be enchanted with how big its 'crystal container' is for a lack of better words
[02:51] <@Kalorian> but the item would need to have a 'socket' to hold a crystal.. and once socketed (like diablo II) could not be removed.. only by destroying the item
[02:51] <Xofia> sound a little like final fantasy's materia magic system :x
[02:52] <Enquillion> that's if one wants to use a container for the element, direct enchantment transfer might be used as well
[02:52] <Enquillion> yeah he should, fits with his elixirs :P
[02:52] <Enquillion> what roger said is what I meant about transferring enchantments. As for REvolv3R - I agree with that, if you don't extract or somehow protect the enchantment, it may be spoiled in the smelting process
[02:52] <Enquillion> but you can preserve it - which would require enchanters and blacksmiths to cooperate for making items as cheaply as possible
[02:53] <Isithrathiel> Have skills like a class tree
[02:53] <Isithrathiel> like
[02:53] <Isithrathiel> If you make weapons
[02:53] <Isithrathiel> decide wether you want to specialize in type of weapon, or 1 type of ore
[02:53] <Isithrathiel> like Weapon Maker 1 specializes in Steel Daggers
[02:53] <Isithrathiel> There are many types of daggers, throwing daggers, twin daggers, sacrificing daggers, and different ways to create 1 type of dagger, making it more lethal then another way of making the dagger, different weights, styles, ect.
[02:53] <@Kalorian> This goes along the lines of our recipe idea earlyer Isith
[02:53] <@Kalorian> Known Recipes and Unknown Recipes
[02:54] <@Kalorian> but I think if you limit players to only making daggers.. or only swords.. or only bows instead of xbows.. its just to limited for crafting and their ability to make on the market
[02:55] <jellocube27> i have to say something of an 'indiana jones' theory.. if you found a rare idol or something of the such, would it have face value at a library or musaem? Or would its only value be it's transformation into a standard RPG item? (Shield, sword, ect)
[02:55] <@Kalorian> Jello - even though this a Q/A I will give you a small bit of input about what we are thinking in regards to these lines.
[02:56] <@Kalorian> The current story we are considering as the background story of Daria etc.. would have an emphasis on finding relics and such for a certain quest line. Going along the lines of 'solving puzzles' etc..
[02:56] <Isithrathiel> but if you become really a master on one type of weapon, you can move on to the swords, I mean you will still be able to make a sword or a mace, but theyre quality and grade will be basic to intermediately made
[02:57] <@Kalorian> I agree with starting from the ground up
[02:57] <@Kalorian> and a good branching in the skill tree etc
[02:57] <@Kalorian> but perhaps having it branch too much would make crafting way too complicated for a little 2d game like this?
[02:57] <@Kalorian> Is a complex crafting system what you want? (as a community)
[02:57] <@Kalorian> I mean the mage system sorta blows my mind hehe
[03:00] <@Kalorian> Do you want an advanced/complex crafting system within Daria? Yes or no (no middle ground)
[03:02] <@Kalorian> Anyways the vote was about 10 yes and 0 no (kinda surprised me)
[03:02] <@Kalorian> Anyways is there anything else, any comments on what we discussed tonight

If you've got corrections, please use the forums PM option to send them to me for fix.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After reading through this I think that even though the ideas are good, I dont like it how the crafting seems all too complicated.

Some ideas suggested sound nice but the ones like only certain classes can craft certain things are just too complicated and bizzare.

For example why cant a fighter craft things for mages, he might be very inventive and clever and he might be able to pull the right magical resources together to do so.

Also ideas about pulling items apart and the components losing physical/magical value, just makes crafting way to complicated.

Another point, it was mentioned that if you discover a 'unknown' recipe you can have your name on the first copy you own, or something along the lines of that. This idea is ok but I think the idea about having your name as the invetor/discovorer somewhere on the item is much better.

Against this though thewreck said, 'what happens if you leave the game, noone will know who this person is'. But isnt that like in real life, if you invent/discover something your name goes down in history and its still there even if you're dead.

Also becuase these 'unknown' recipes are meant to be rare and hard to find, it will take a long time to find them and if you've played a long time and you have found an 'unknown' recipe most likely you're not just going to quit the game becuase you've been playing the game for a long time already. (Get what i mean? Very Happy )

Anyway these are just a few of my initial thoughts...
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what i meant was that, there would be time spent on developing a feature which would in a couple of months no longer be used.
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