Dawn of Daria Forum Index Dawn of Daria
Official forums
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

an idea for a monster
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Dawn of Daria Forum Index -> Fan-art
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Kalorian
Developer


Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Posts: 300
Location: Uiejonbou, South Korea

PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wreck - I think you were asking for an example of an NPC's reaction if you are good or evil.

Evil NPC to Good PC - You serve the light or Holy God etc.. I will not sell my wares to you.

Good NPC to Evil PC - Guards! Kill this theif!

But all in the same opinions which is what thewreck refers to is the same as good and evil. The only difference is that there aren't just 2 options or 3 perhaps.. good evil neutral.

Instead you can have 10-20 opinions and what this makes is for very dynamic gameplay. Could also be somewhat confusing in the more advanced areas of Daria and such. But in general having 'more' ways you can play the game is what thewreck is trying to emphasize. If I've said to much wreck my appologies, only way I think it could be explained to where the community understands what you mean Smile
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Origon
Posts until end: 850


Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Posts: 171
Location: Akarra: Project Phoenix

PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know im not one to correct wreck (or anything of the sort) but what I (and i hope wreck) was saying that certain npc's will have different evil/good beliefs, not just 3 options

Such as a town guard will be pissed off if you pk; a weapons merchant will dislike you a bit, a thief will like you, some mercenary will give you protection (and im not saying just good/evil alligned npcs, but more of an in-depth system)
_________________
My 2 cents were stolen, so here's some lint and a toothpick
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
thewreck
Site Admin


Joined: 29 Nov 2004
Posts: 1109

PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ill just let kal do the talking, he seems to explain what im trying to insinuate much better =)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Archosseus
Posts until end: 850


Joined: 03 Dec 2004
Posts: 189
Location: Rotterdam, NL

PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well most of the time an opinion's core is either good, evil or neutral.
At least the intention when saying it. A paladin saying: "Justice to those that hurt the innocent." the paladin's intention is good. If he says: "Let the innocent rot, I don't care." then he is 1. Evil and 2. a bad paladin.

The core of an opinion is always good, neutral or evil/bad.

Kalorian wrote:
But all in the same opinions which is what thewreck refers to is the same as good and evil. The only difference is that there aren't just 2 options or 3 perhaps.. good evil neutral.

Instead you can have 10-20 opinions and what this makes is for very dynamic gameplay. Could also be somewhat confusing in the more advanced areas of Daria and such. But in general having 'more' ways you can play the game is what thewreck is trying to emphasize.
So if I understand correctly; if an NPC or such asks you something you are going to give us enough choises to make and what suits the player. Good, evil and neutral can be devided too. Good obeying the rules, good having his own rules, in between that and the same for evil and neutral.

The gods in DoD, say if there are supposed to be three of them. For each alignment the god only heals, helps and serves that alignment. It would be unlikely for a 'good' god to heal an 'evil' player. The neutral god heals both and has no preference between both. The player serves the god his alignment is set too and is allowed to choose the 'neutral' god. His pure alignment god offers him more services but the neutral god serves both but less services then the other 2.

Kalorian wrote:
Good NPC to Evil PC - Guards! Kill this theif!

What makes an evil player a thief? Confused
The player could have killed someone, but that still doesn't make him a thief. And vice versa...
There are good thieves too, just like a story most likely everyone knows. Robin Hood. The intentions of the thief is good so that makes him good. Maybe people see him as evil but he's still good, no matter their opinions.

Hmmm, going rather off-topic here. Don't I?
_________________

Remembered as Just Anubite, Blue of the Gifted

Brother of Justice..

AKA Symbiont..
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kalorian
Developer


Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Posts: 300
Location: Uiejonbou, South Korea

PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But the question is does everyone believe the samething?

If we go off your assumption about 3 gods in Daria (I know you don't know for sure.. but just saying) wouldn't there be alternate beliefs of these 3 gods?

You could have the Human belief of the 3 gods

and the Siman belief of the 3 gods... well the Siman don't agree with how the Human's believe in the 3 gods and choose to sell their wares at higher prices for those Humans that define their religion as the "Human Belief" etc.. while most Human towns that have the same belief will react differently and be more trusting based on that belief and common place among the 2 that are interacting.

There will still be good vs evil and neutrality but there will be much more.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Stant
Posts until end: 500


Joined: 02 Dec 2004
Posts: 753

PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Archosseus wrote:
At least the intention when saying it. A paladin saying: "Justice to those that hurt the innocent." the paladin's intention is good. If he says: "Let the innocent rot, I don't care." then he is 1. Evil and 2. a bad paladin.

There's no such thing as a bad paladin. Only good ones, and former ones.

Archosseus wrote:
Good obeying the rules, good having his own rules, in between that and the same for evil and neutral.

That would be considered Lawful, neutral, or Chaotic.

Archosseus wrote:
It would be unlikely for a 'good' god to heal an 'evil' player. The neutral god heals both and has no preference between both.

How about this way? In a previous game I was once a part of, the evil gods only did things that gave them an advantage. Like you said heal/provide services to their own, and forget the rest. However, the good gods, trying to believe that there was good in everything, healed anyone whom came along, though for those that weren't followers it was less helpful.

Archosseus wrote:
What makes an evil player a thief? Confused
The player could have killed someone, but that still doesn't make him a thief. And vice versa...
There are good thieves too, just like a story most likely everyone knows. Robin Hood. The intentions of the thief is good so that makes him good. Maybe people see him as evil but he's still good, no matter their opinions.
Have to agree with you here mostly, but not fully. Robin Hood was considered a do-gooder by those he helped, but a bad person by those he stole from. That would make him chaotic good, not evil. But then again, you have to evaluate the society the story takes place in. He was stealing from wealthy whom taxed the hell out of everyone who wasn't a noble. That's what made him look good. If it was a Carl Marxist society where everyone was treated the same and they all shared in the joys and sorrows of that life, and he stole from one group and gave to another, he'd be viewed as an evil person.

Everything is based on what part of the society you're viewing the situation from. To make this a tad bit more personal to some people, think of the East Gate near the end there.
The situation: Too many players in one small place.
The sides: Highbies and Midbies.
The grounds for actions of the Highbies: This is the last possible area in the game to train in, and it's filling up beyond capacity.
The grounds for actions of the Midbies: We're outlevelling all of the other places, they're getting crowded, and there's items in there that can only be obtained in there.
Actions of the Highbies: Set an entry level and enforce it to control the number of people in the last place your character will ever be seen.
Actions of the midbies: Do everything possible to get in the gate.
View of the situation from the Highbies: This is the last place any of us can go. If we can't go here because all of you are here, then we can't play at all. We want to play too, we've worked a lot harder, and have been here longer, this place is ours to claim.
View of the situation from the Midbies: We've outlevelled all of the other places. That place was designed with our levels in mind. There are items in there that can only be gotten in there. You've had your fun, now let us in so we can have ours.

Who is right? The highbies were treated as elietist bastards, and the midbies were treated as n00b scum. Your opinion on the situation all depends on which side of the fence you were on. Should the gate be free and open since there was no level limit on it, or should the Highbies be allowed to close off the gate with rules of their own to protect the very last place any of them could be? In truth, neither side was right, and neither side was wrong. It was a split society with a different look on the situation.

Now getting back somewhat on topic, apply this split point of view to different cities/towns/villages in Daria. Your actions could be considered valid and pure by one group, yet vile and disgusting by another. That doesn't necessarily make your actions right or wrong, good or evil, just different. The societ of the place you wandered into can judge you based on your actions compared to their values. If you come from an anarchist style of life and move into a very lawful town, your chaotic behavior would be seen as a cancer on the society, much as if the situation was reversed and someone who needs law and order when into a lawless society and tried to establish basic rules. If an evil person stubled into a good town, their way of life is viewed as wrong, and thus they are treated that way, much as if a good person wandered into an evil town, the evil would be disgusted by the good actions of that person and want to get rid of them just as fast.

The only real difference is how they handle the situation, and that's where I think Kal has it backwards. A good person would have the evil one locked up because life is valued more. An evil person wouldn't care for life and likely gut the goodie-goodie right there themselves. A chaotic person would enjoy the stories of snubbing the law and give variable rates on goods because set prices would be too strict, but could also not sell to murderers because they think killing is wrong. A lawful person would be apalled by anything not justified, and would still sell to murderers if these murders were committed in accordance with the law, such as killing of the kings animals being punishable by death.

Everything depends on what side of the society you're on. If Daria had diversity in this aspect, it could allow players to actually branch out and be in places more akin to their characters way of life.
_________________
This change isn't because of Kal's request to change it, it's to tell the community that I'm pissed at him because he fucked me over by not sticking up for me when he should have, instead he blasted me. I have no problem with Daria or any of it's other staff. It was changed in response to his lies about fixing it, which he did NOT do.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LookinToDie
Posts until end: 900


Joined: 03 Dec 2004
Posts: 103
Location: on my way..

PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stant wrote:
Archosseus wrote:
At least the intention when saying it. A paladin saying: "Justice to those that hurt the innocent." the paladin's intention is good. If he says: "Let the innocent rot, I don't care." then he is 1. Evil and 2. a bad paladin.

There's no such thing as a bad paladin. Only good ones, and former ones.


A paladin is someone fighting for the cause of their god. So there may be "bad" paladins, only they are usually called differently.. like dark knights, death knights and such.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
thewreck
Site Admin


Joined: 29 Nov 2004
Posts: 1109

PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

. stant seems to have some points in there though =)

good is just good because we chose to call it good.

the paladin is only a good paladin cause he follows the way of the god we find good.

the god thinks thau shalt not steal, while another god, thau shalt now own things. who is more evil?



if we wanna define good and evil we would get into some crazy meta-philosophical debate which we would most likely get stuck in.

spiders mommas eat spider fathers, we might consider them evil, but the spiders probably dont.

anyway, i cant really explain what my feeling are on this, thus this will feel fuzzy.

but.. why is killing wrong?. and why should we value life?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Archosseus
Posts until end: 850


Joined: 03 Dec 2004
Posts: 189
Location: Rotterdam, NL

PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LookinToDie wrote:
Stant wrote:
Archosseus wrote:
At least the intention when saying it. A paladin saying: "Justice to those that hurt the innocent." the paladin's intention is good. If he says: "Let the innocent rot, I don't care." then he is 1. Evil and 2. a bad paladin.

There's no such thing as a bad paladin. Only good ones, and former ones.


A paladin is someone fighting for the cause of their god. So there may be "bad" paladins, only they are usually called differently.. like dark knights, death knights and such.
Ah yes, perhaps that's how I should have put it. What i meant with "bad" is, he doesn't do the things he should. If he doesn't protect innocent people then he isn't much of a paladin would he?

All is right though, wether something is Evil or Good is one's own viewpoint. Still though, there are ways to seperate them.. in general. You have to look from the viewpoint of someone Neutral.
Someone asks you to rescue her child -

You kill the child - Evil
You rescue the child - Good

Quests like that can seperate the Good from the Evil.
I think only the NPC's that have a certain faith should refuse services to the opposite alignment. If you see a customer walking in to by a weapon, how could you see it is Evil or Good? Those with a certain faith, say like a priest, a cleric, paladin etc. They could see wether what you are because the one they follow tells them that.
Your right though, it's hard to seperate both of them. I would rather do without them then the feeling of the waste of time to implement these things.

On to the topic though. You could still have characters such as your avatar.. The only problem is they shouldn't be called dwarves. Someone who's smalerl and has a beard doesn't have to be a dwarf, right? Wink
_________________

Remembered as Just Anubite, Blue of the Gifted

Brother of Justice..

AKA Symbiont..
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Origon
Posts until end: 850


Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Posts: 171
Location: Akarra: Project Phoenix

PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Archosseus - still depends on the situation

Kill a human child (you're human) - evil
kill a human child (you're a simian and they hate humans) - good
kill a demon-child (you're either) - good
_________________
My 2 cents were stolen, so here's some lint and a toothpick
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Dawn of Daria Forum Index -> Fan-art All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

Style by Oxeye Game Studio