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zolaman
Posts until end: 960


Joined: 12 Jan 2005
Posts: 43
Location: baltimore MD USA

PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 11:09 pm    Post subject: animated Reply with quote

mabe you guys should make the little people animated so it would be more pleasing on the eyes..

i dont mind them how they are now but i think it would be kinda better if the peoples legs moved or somethin.
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Stant
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Joined: 02 Dec 2004
Posts: 753

PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

um... That would require a lot more images then what you're probably thinking of.
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This change isn't because of Kal's request to change it, it's to tell the community that I'm pissed at him because he fucked me over by not sticking up for me when he should have, instead he blasted me. I have no problem with Daria or any of it's other staff. It was changed in response to his lies about fixing it, which he did NOT do.
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DarkHydra
Posts until end: 850


Joined: 05 Jan 2005
Posts: 158

PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For real, think I'd be happy enough with the present format. I just want to get back into the game with the old community. Why don't we just let them worry about content instead of eye candy...
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Saven
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Joined: 02 Dec 2004
Posts: 27
Location: At a computer

PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

just to clue you in on how much work that entitles:

each character has five different animations:
walking, stopped, attacking, taking damage, and sleeping.
now for each animation there are, lets say, four different directions
so 5 animations x 4 directions = 20 animations

for every object that can be wielded there must be 20 different animations. Now on the conservative side lets say their are only 50 wieldable items in the game. 50 x 20 = 1000

1000 different animations, and I'm still not done!

we know of three races, so 1000 x 3 = 3000
and there are male and female of each race
3000 x 2 = 6000

now in akarra there you were able to customize your characters look, so lets say that there are 3 different body types for each race and gender

6000 x 3 = 18000

Eighteen-thousand different animations. and this is a very conservative number.

now relize that once you start playing the game you will only be able to acquire 50 items, so this includes swords, shields, armor, helmets, boots, staffs, and jewlry. so if they are diveded equaly you only have around seven of each item.

now the question is, for only fifty items is it worth it to have animations? and final number doesn't even include having to animate monsters.
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Eponick
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Joined: 24 Jan 2005
Posts: 237
Location: Behind you

PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, thats quite a jacked up number.
You should redo quite a bit of calculating there.
It would be more along theese lines if implimented:
2 frames per direction, 4 directions.
2x4=8
3 known races so
8x3=24
So 24 sprites to take care of every known race.
If there are 3 body types then:
24x3=72

And about the equipment:
There would be 1 or 2 frames per direction(Depending how they were made) so its a maximum of 8.
So those 50 items would take 400 frames at max.

And lets just say there are 100 monsters.
So 100x8=800 frames for the monsters.

So total is 1,272, way lower than 18,000 and you didnt even include any monsters.

Im not saying if this will or wont be implimented, just fixing your figures a bit Smile
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thewreck
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Joined: 29 Nov 2004
Posts: 1109

PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it all really comes down to imagination.

if the character has animated walk, but doesnt have animated shield blocking, or has animated spell casting, but doesnt have animated getting hit, or whatever, things will look really strange. (imagine playing warcraft III and the units run up to eachother, and then just stand there, while taking hp from each other, you would think it looked VERY strange....) Therefor, making the game less strange with animations than without would require that we animate animations for all actions, and those are many (and would probably effect the number of actions we add). (imagine if you could mine, or fish?)

The second part of the problem is that most people dont realize how complex the charachters are.

currently, hands, heads, hairs, eyes, bodies x 3, feet, weapon, shield, helmet are all separate parts.

thats 11 parts.

which means that not only do we have to make 11 frames for each frame of any animation, but we have to sit and make sure they are all perfectly synced, (imagine putting together 11 different parts and animating then individually and making them look good together)

Certain parts are shared among races, but 5 of them arent.

that means (say there are 3 races), 5*3 + 11 = 26 frames per single frame of animation.

now, we are forgetting that there are two genders per race aswell, the gender differ even more, they differ on as many as 7 parts. ( in

this means that, 11 + 15 + 7*3 (add a gender for each race) = 47 frames per singe frame of animation.

Now of course, we are indeed forgetting that we have poses (6 per race, 3 per gender). Each gender and race has 3 poses, and then differ on 3 parts

that means, 11 + 15 + 21 + 3*3*4 (we add 4 poses for each race, each pose has 3 parts) = 83 frames per single frame of animation.

ah, finally, so 83 frames per single frame of animation, in just 1(!) direction.

How many directions do we want?, well you can walk in 8, so that would be the obvious choice, and its the same argument as the first part of the problem, if we cant make it good, it will look strange.
so, 8 directions, but if we are cheap we can reuse 3 of them, so 5 total.

5 * 83 = 415 frames per single fram of animation in all directions.

Now, remember, this only covers one configuration, if you wanna use another armor or so many of the frames would have to be replaced, more exactly ( 3 *3 *2 *8 = 144)

So, lets put down the animations we want:

Stand (f=1)
Walk (f=3)
Melee attack (f=2)
get hit (f=1)
cast spell (f=2)
sleep (f=1)
Block (f=1)
Throw (f=2)
Bowlike attack (f=2)

415 + 415*3 + 415*2 + 415 + 415*2 + 415 + 415 + 415*2 + 415*2 = 415 * 15 = 6225 frames for the the animations we want in the directions we want, on just ONE configuration of a charachter.

lets compare if with the current system, which would require 83 images.


6225 or 83 images, for the same amount of 'content'

thats 75 times as much gfx for the same content!, which means that if we ignore the huge amount of work to just make all the directions look good, and all the syncing between parts and all that, that ASIDE, it would ATLEAST require 75 times the amount of time, probably 200 times the amount of time if we include the other stuff, that that is nicely calculated.

Note that this work would be extremely mundane, just doing the same item or armor in all direction and frames of the animations.

I would like to remind you that we do this for fun, because we like making this game, not because we are getting rich or are whipped to do it, if its no fun making the game, there is a big risk that we will just get sick of it, that is why i say no to animations.
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Pre
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Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Posts: 436
Location: CT, United States

PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea I'd actually prefer the Akarra characters, they were original. I would also have the devs spend their time on gameplay and not movement of characters.
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Stant
Posts until end: 500


Joined: 02 Dec 2004
Posts: 753

PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah so like I said... That's a hell of a lot more images then what you're probably thinking of. 18,000 just for playable races, 1,272 for the bare basics forgetting about gender and positions, or 6,225 * (however many different configurations of a character you can dream of)...

Give me 83 and let me play a hell of a lot sooner. =]
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This change isn't because of Kal's request to change it, it's to tell the community that I'm pissed at him because he fucked me over by not sticking up for me when he should have, instead he blasted me. I have no problem with Daria or any of it's other staff. It was changed in response to his lies about fixing it, which he did NOT do.
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Origon
Posts until end: 850


Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Posts: 171
Location: Akarra: Project Phoenix

PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally, i too think that the devs should focus less on the eyecandy and more on the gameplay itself. Comon, its not like we're trying to attract 38678423647092375823532421 new players. There is already a stable community built up. One that has (mostly) played WiA, liked it, and knows what to expect from it. I for one don't expect nor WANT the gfx to be improved a lot or changed (with the exception of just adding stuff) I personally loved WiA for what it was. An original design with a good community because it appealed to people with its gameplay and not a flashy design. And by now i forgot what the point of this post was, so i'll just....stop
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Thanquol
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Joined: 02 Dec 2004
Posts: 239
Location: London

PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Times are changing, games such as WoW are out, offering amazing gameplay with decent 3D gfx; although I don't like the cost and WiA gave me such a good feeling that it would be a crime not to play DoD. I'm just saying, maybe animations are the way to go.
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