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Death penalties - R
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Stant
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Joined: 02 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's also use some common sense here and realize that this thread isn't about dying while PK, there's another thread for that. This is about death in general. What ever additional penalties come from dying as a PK should be handled in the PK thread, not this one. This thread is to discuss what happens when maybe an overly adventurous player wanders into the wrong part of a map and get's pwned by some monsters, or when a player (Non-PK) get's killed, or die from prolonged exposure to poison or disease, or even if the game allows it, get's you killed via a trap of sorts.

The reason we keep talking in clan war form is because that's legal PK. We refer to being killed by monsters, because that's what's going to happen. Dying while PK has a different set of rules that should penalize you differently. In Akarra the dying while PK penalty was loss of a piece of equipment. That was an ADDITIONAL penalty above the NORMAL death penalty. What we are discussing here is the NORMAL penalty. That being said, do not consider your deaths while PK as part of the reason why you don't like this. Dying just because you were too agressive shouldn't penalize you permenantly like the loss of XP or equipment would bring you. Hence the best way to make people fear death without a permenant penalty is limit the allowable number of deaths within a certain time range to force them to play smarter when they're low on lives. If I start up a day with 40 lives, I'll abuse 35 of them... Those last 5, I'm not going to risk as much unless the reward is truely worth sitting that character out of the action for, say for example, 30 hours. I'm not going to like that, so therefor, I'm going to play smarter.

For players like Tig3r who spammed up a place, lured spawns all over the place, and disrupted 'normal' gameplay for others, his behavior will get him killed repeatedly and force him out of the game much more often. Is that bad? No. Contrary to what you might think, he loves to play the game, and being forced to sit out due to bad behavior will force him to play according to community standards. Should he get repeatedly PK'd without provokation, he'll have a legitimate complaint to the admins. But you can't say he's a changed player until you see his actions in game. As I said in chat last night. I've been around habitual law breakers for a long time. For whatever reason they do what they do, they don't just change. Taking away something he loves, just might make him change. But again, we won't know what he will be like until we have something to work with. Everybody understands that he's 12 years old, but even a 12 year old knows that guns kill. If he killed someone with a gun at age 12, there's no way you could come here claiming we should forgive and forget because he's only 12. 3 year olds have social behavior patterns. By 12, you should know how to act. If you don't, you need to get a crash course in social activities. Time outs are good for problematic people. It let's them have a chance to think about their mistakes. Now enough about Tig3r, I'm sure he hates the fact that he's always the example.

Now then, back to death penalties, Bud, you never did answer my questions. I'll ask them again with additional ones for extra clarification. Actually, I'll answer them as well, and I encourage others to answer them.


As always please explain your answers.
1. In Akarra, were you afraid to die? (while non-PK)
2. In Akarra, were you afraid to die while PK?
3. The days you died frequently, what activities were you doing?
4. The days you hardly ever died, or never died, what activities were you doing?
5. In your answers to questions 3 and 4, were you PK during those activities?
6. For those who weren't afraid to die, what in game mechanism would make you fear death? (While non-PK)
7. For those who weren't afraid to die while PK, what in game mechanism would make you fear death?


My answers:
1. In Akarra, were you afraid to die? (while non-PK)
No, I only lost a little bit of my money that I carried and a little bit of time to get my stamina back up to full and run back to where I was.

2. In Akarra, were you afraid to die while PK?
Most of the time no. The additional penalty to dying while PK was loss of an equipped Item. I simply did not carry the items I couldn't easily replace while I was PK. Outside of that, same answer as before. Little bit of money and some lost time, and I was right back in action.

3. The days you died frequently, what activities were you doing?
I was mostly gate crawling, sticking to my promise of saving the lives of those who were new to the gate and earned their place there. Other times, I was playing tour guide, and luring monsters and explaing attack strategy for players unfamiliar with the area.

4. The days you hardly ever died, or never died, what activities were you doing?
Mostly just spawn killing for money. Very low risk, high monetary gains. Sanled. <3

5. In your answers to questions 3 and 4, were you PK during those activities?
While earning money, sometimes, it was a low risk activity for me, gate crawling/tour guide, never, too high of a risk of death.

6. For those who weren't afraid to die, what in game mechanism would make you fear death? (While non-PK)
Limiting the number of times I could just respawn and get right back to what I was doing before really would force me to step back and make sure what I was doing wasn't above my skill/character level. Outside of that, everything can be gotten back fairly easily except stat loss, but that would be an unacceptable loss by most people's standards.

7. For those who weren't afraid to die while PK, what in game mechanism would make you fear death?
Forcing me to sit out of the game. I'm here to play and if that option is unavailable, I'm not going to do the things I normally would that would cause me to repeatedly lose my lives.
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This change isn't because of Kal's request to change it, it's to tell the community that I'm pissed at him because he fucked me over by not sticking up for me when he should have, instead he blasted me. I have no problem with Daria or any of it's other staff. It was changed in response to his lies about fixing it, which he did NOT do.
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LookinToDie
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I really dislike about this system is that your character becomes unplayable. What's the point of a game if you can't play it??

There are other ways to make death feared. At least in PvM battles. What's the point of killing monsters? - Xp and drops. So why not make it that you get less xp per monster after every death and the drops get less frequent? This will slow down your progression if you are not careful but your character will still remain playable.
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DarkHydra
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LookinToDie wrote:
What I really dislike about this system is that your character becomes unplayable. What's the point of a game if you can't play it??



Why can't you play it??? In all likelyhood you'll have several character slots. Using all your lives will only force one of those into hibernation, unless of course you're such a horrible player that you send all your characters to repeated deaths for stupid reasons within the span of a day or two. Rolling Eyes In which case you need to find a new hobby.

I was planning on only using one character slot and not have alts, but even so I'm in favor of this system even though it means more risk for my style of gaming. Why I'm I not worried about? Because I don't plan on being a retard in game (OOC who knows Wink ) then I don't reasonably see myself running through all my lives all at once.
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Stant
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed, you can still play your alts, just the one you were being stupid with is temporarily unavailable. Since you can't play that character would you be willing to risk dying? Not likely, and that's the whole point of it. To make you fear losing that last life. We're not trying to use this as an angle to slow down levelling. In fact it was suggested that the more levels you have, the more lives you get to spend. So if you want to talk about the levelling aspect, this encourages getting more levels.

Besides, what's the difference between half XP for 12 hours and not being able to play a character for 6 hours. XP wise, nothing. What's the difference between playing one character over the other? Just the type of character you build. You still get to play.
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This change isn't because of Kal's request to change it, it's to tell the community that I'm pissed at him because he fucked me over by not sticking up for me when he should have, instead he blasted me. I have no problem with Daria or any of it's other staff. It was changed in response to his lies about fixing it, which he did NOT do.
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Enquillion
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stant wrote:
1. In Akarra, were you afraid to die? (while non-PK)
2. In Akarra, were you afraid to die while PK?
3. The days you died frequently, what activities were you doing?
4. The days you hardly ever died, or never died, what activities were you doing?
5. In your answers to questions 3 and 4, were you PK during those activities?
6. For those who weren't afraid to die, what in game mechanism would make you fear death? (While non-PK)
7. For those who weren't afraid to die while PK, what in game mechanism would make you fear death?


1: If I carried a lot of coins, mainly. Sometimes if it meant a long aggravating trip from the obelisk. If it meant losing my horse, it could be disastrous. Not too afraid in clan warfare.

2: Yep.

3: General: Risky play.
Wizard: EG (with/without CY) without clerics. As for solo, "I tried doing it" is suffice to say...
Fighter: Took too much risk for my rewards. If in FS, too few or too stupid allies.
Cleric: Teamed up with the wrong FS.

4: General: Safe play or no play.
Wizard: EG with clerics or no EG at all.
Fighter: Run rather than fight uncertain battles. If in FS, many and/or intelligent allies.
Cleric: Teamed up with the right FS.

5: Wasn't a PK too often. Let's just say, rarely enough for people to think I had good reasons.

6-7 already answered.

Bud, as I recall it, you were one of the fabled Cait-hunters. As for separate servers, yeah I like that, but that's not how things are gonna start out. =]
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BudMan
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hunted Cait for my own personal reasons, not to PK her out of the game. Its not my fault that she already had an angry mob of people trying to PK her. I think it was Quickdeath that ran the Cait hunting squads.


One time in the Gate. Mike, Cait, QD and I were all in an FS. QD PKed Cait and Mike starts laughing at her dead little corpse laying on the ground. Damn, that was funny!
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Pre
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well for me and other mid lvl friends, we kind of feared death. Since you highbies already had the best equiptment, you really didnt need to buy any more. But I didnt want to die cause I always wanted better armor/weapons and such.

But maybe if you die a lot in a certain amount of time, your character will become unconscious, and your character will be unplayable for a certain amount of time. I'm sure people will fear death more often.
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Stant
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The best equipment was attainable at midbie levels. If you had money to trade and good people skills you could have bought everything you needed to make the best equipment, or if you just waited out high levels of gate traffic you could have used those good people skills and gotten in on a gate FS for the practice, experience, and the drops. The only time there were ever problems with player made rules and the gate were when there were too many people there. If there wasn't too many people in there, there were almost never any problems.

Besides all of that, what really is the 'best' equipment? For me being a pure tanker and standing on the front line blocking paths, the highest defence ratings was the best. Then again, for other's like Malysrtyx who wanted a dagger user, leather was by far a better option then going all heavy defense because it saved a crap load of stamina which allowed them to attack longer and not be subjected to the reduced AC because of defensive stamina drain. Also for me the best weapon was the berdiche because I could get better damage from that then anything else, I could reach over people with it so I can stand behind someone and still hit, but it was very very slow... Other's like Rhysanna would tell me that the axe is far better because it was faster, and that the lesser amount of damage was made up for by hitting more often. Of course there were varying levels of weapons in each of those and I never did have the best weapons of any type, and yet, I did ok for myself.
_________________
This change isn't because of Kal's request to change it, it's to tell the community that I'm pissed at him because he fucked me over by not sticking up for me when he should have, instead he blasted me. I have no problem with Daria or any of it's other staff. It was changed in response to his lies about fixing it, which he did NOT do.
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BudMan
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I got a few ideas.

1. You could reward players for dying less. Not sure how? Items, Money, Exp. Some other ways maybe?

2. The Clan wars thing. Put a limit on how many times you can be killed by another clan when at war. After the limit is up, then you are not protected from pk status. An easy way for a player to know that hes reached his limit is, have the players that you are at war with names go back to normal (instead of being orange).

3. After so many deaths instead of being taken out the game. Maybe you are just restricted from going to certian places/towns or talking to NPCs. Or maybe restricted from PvP combat.

I think there is many ways players can be made to fear death. Ill post some more idea's if i get them. I totally agree death should be feared but I don't think making a persons charater unplayable is the awnser. Because of my shity connection, I am going to feel any death penalties more then anyone else in the game. Go easy on me please.
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Stant
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thought you were getting a newer better connection...
_________________
This change isn't because of Kal's request to change it, it's to tell the community that I'm pissed at him because he fucked me over by not sticking up for me when he should have, instead he blasted me. I have no problem with Daria or any of it's other staff. It was changed in response to his lies about fixing it, which he did NOT do.
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