Dawn of Daria Forum Index Dawn of Daria
Official forums
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Thoughts on Weapons and Armor
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Dawn of Daria Forum Index -> Inventors of Daria
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
DarkHydra
Posts until end: 850


Joined: 05 Jan 2005
Posts: 158

PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2005 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That would be fine too. But the advantage to having spells, armor and weapons based on stats instead of class, I would think would be that it's easier to program in is the event you want to expand the game with new classes that will utilize items already in the game.

I too liked the class tree, (though I felt sorry for healers who couldn't solo) and was sorry that we couldn't explore it all the way to the top. Who knows maybe DoD will implement something similar. Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Stant
Posts until end: 500


Joined: 02 Dec 2004
Posts: 753

PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2005 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DarkHydra wrote:
Actually in one of my posts I did mention that healers (quasi cleric) could benefit from this as well.


Couple things here, it's true clerics could benefit from it, Paladins do, the difference is, a paladin is a base class whom is designed like a fighter, get's the abilities of a fighter, who has also made a pact with the god he or she serves, and thus is granted divine powers. Clerics all have divine powers as well. Wizards and mages do not use divine powers. Divine powers are not magic. These powers come from the god they serve, not the character themselves like when a wizard casts a spell. That's the primary reason when you lose your status as a paladin, you lose your divine powers as well.

Copied from WotC:

"Code of Conduct: A paladin must be of lawful good alignment and loses all special class abilities if she ever willingly commits an act of evil. Additionally, a paladin's code requires that she respect legitimate authority, act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, etc.), help those who need help (provided they do not use the help for evil or chaotic ends), and punish those that harm or threaten innocents."

"Ex-Paladins: A paladin who ceases to be lawful good, who willfully commits an evil act, or who grossly violates the code of conduct loses all special abilities and spells, including the service of the paladin's warhorse. She also may not progress in levels as a paladin. She regains her abilities if she atones for her violations, as appropriate."

Paladins and clerics are different, thus they are handled different.

DarkHydra wrote:
Btw, where has our perception that magic can't be cast while wearing armor come from? I mean this isn't Arcanum, where technology and magic are incompatible.


Our perception came from D&D which has been around for a few decades (since 1972)... Much longer then most of us have been alive, and a hell of a lot longer then arcanum. Also last I checked, the armor we're all talking about isn't considered technology. It isn't considered technology even in arcanum. Go ahead, put on that dwarven plate, it' won't prevent you from getting blasted by magic like wearing Elektro-Armor. I'll go one step further, the armor you wear has almost no bearing on what you're affected by in game. That descision is made by that guage that tells you how magical or how techy you are.

DarkHydra wrote:
However, if it's cast through reciting of incantations, then about the only to retrict it would be a thick face mask perhaps.

No, only a gag would stop that. ;P

DarkHydra wrote:
Btw, has anyone had a a modern day witch try and cast a spell while wearing recreation armor? My guess would be they could do it just as well with armor as without.

Modern day armor has been designed around flexibility and mobility. We wear kevlar suits (that are no more bulky then leather vests) that stop bullets and fencing sword blades and evenly distribute force, not full platemail in the hopes it'll stop arrows. If you're referring to the plastic shoulderpads and the dense foam padding that (American) football players and such wear, then that as well has undergone design changes to increase mobility, as well as being made from much much lighter material. Pick up a foam block, then pick up an iron block of the same size and tell me you can wear a suit of it, just as easily as you could wear one made of plastic. ;D
_________________
This change isn't because of Kal's request to change it, it's to tell the community that I'm pissed at him because he fucked me over by not sticking up for me when he should have, instead he blasted me. I have no problem with Daria or any of it's other staff. It was changed in response to his lies about fixing it, which he did NOT do.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DarkHydra
Posts until end: 850


Joined: 05 Jan 2005
Posts: 158

PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stant, I just have to ask this: Have I offended you in some way where it's necesary to try and counter everything I say? Healers could also be of the white magic variety which would have nothing to do with divine power. But I digress, as you correctly state, Arcanum normal armor is not technology and is governed by stats (a nice bonus). Games need not follow D&D, it is not an authority on what should or shouldn't be. Just like every WiA was nice about giving us enemies besides the D&D/Tolkien garden variety goblins, etc. And when I said recreation I didn't mean recreational (football bmx, etc) I meant historical armors Re-Created. (Think Renaisance Fair)

Actually we've argued so much I'm not sure I even know what your stance is on the issue. I'm guessing you think weapons and armor should be restricted by class, correct? That's all I'm asking, I'm not asking you to prove me wrong in something because it'll just lead to more dispute and that's not what I'm looking for.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Stant
Posts until end: 500


Joined: 02 Dec 2004
Posts: 753

PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2005 3:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DarkHydra wrote:
Stant, I just have to ask this: Have I offended you in some way where it's necesary to try and counter everything I say?

No, I just have a different opinion, and everytime you support yours, I counter to support mine. It's nothing personal, it's just called debating, and you seem to be my favorite target at the moment. =Þ

DarkHydra wrote:
Healers could also be of the white magic variety which would have nothing to do with divine power.

Yes, they could.

DarkHydra wrote:
Games need not follow D&D, it is not an authority on what should or shouldn't be.

No, but with over 30 years of adjusting and tweeking, it makes a far better system then all these crappy little ones that come and go with each game that anybody makes.

DarkHydra wrote:
Just like every WiA was nice about giving us enemies besides the D&D/Tolkien garden variety goblins, etc.

Yes, nothing wrong with being original when it comes to creatures. The D&D system encourages you to make your own monsters. They've even published guides instructing you on how to make them. So really monster creation isn't an issue. It's accepted and encouraged, just like creating additional character classes, skills, and feats.

DarkHydra wrote:
And when I said recreation I didn't mean recreational (football bmx, etc) I meant historical armors Re-Created. (Think Renaisance Fair)

I see... Thanks for elaborating. It'd rather think Renaissance times, not Renaissance fair, but my point still stands. That is play armor, not battle armor. It's made from lighter materials and designed specifically for one purpose in entertainment. They have different armors for different events. Armors worn in current day jousting is usually only a front plate strapped to you and a shirt or something over all of that. It's usually made of aluminum or steel. Same with the sword or axe games, they wear clothing that is interlaced with kevlar so that if they accidentally strike each other, only minor injuries occur. Either way, it's no where near as heavy as the good iron plate armors of old had to be to provide full protection from every angle from every type of attack. Modern day re-created armors benefit from newer, lighter, stronger metals. They just don't wear the old heavies anymore because they're too heavy and bulky to be of good use.

DarkHydra wrote:
I'm guessing you think weapons and armor should be restricted by class, correct?

No, not really. My position is if you have the use feat, then yes you should have it. Use Feats are generally restricted by class so that the player is forced to make logical choices when advancing their character. The reason I'm so against being able to just dump stat points into something to allow you to circumvent that rule, is because it just doesn't make sense. If you can just add stat points to get something, then what is the point of even having classes?

Just answer these questions since I asked at some point, maybe not clearly enough, but it's very helpful to know.

Should you be able to add stats to str to wear/wield/use any type of weapon/armor?

Should you be able to add stats to int to learn and cast any type of spell?

If both the above answers are yes, then why should there even be classes or a class tree since you can obviously train out of them, and what is the point of use feats?
If one is yes, and the other no, then you need to re-evaluate the fairness of your position, or at least explain it so I know how to point out the flaw in that way of thinking.
If both are no, then why argue all this time?
_________________
This change isn't because of Kal's request to change it, it's to tell the community that I'm pissed at him because he fucked me over by not sticking up for me when he should have, instead he blasted me. I have no problem with Daria or any of it's other staff. It was changed in response to his lies about fixing it, which he did NOT do.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DarkHydra
Posts until end: 850


Joined: 05 Jan 2005
Posts: 158

PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2005 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I'd say yes to both questions, in that, with enough strength it should physically be possible to carry or wear any item, however I would limit its effectiveness through skills. Like someone said earlier (might have been you, not sure though) I wiz who's used to carrying a staff could carry a spear but it wouldn't mean he'd be able to use it effectively. Someone who isn't used to wearing restrictive armor may find they aren't as coordinated as before and/or cannot move and quickly.

It could be the same thing with spells, intelligence of how to read and memorize may give a person a spell. But their familiarity with shaping and controling the energies may also be something they would have to learn. Otherwise the may find their spell's power isn't as focused.

Perhaps giving the player the option of training in anything, but increasing the cost (cost as in Attribute points not cash) of training the skills or attributes not specialized in by the players class. Or giving everyone access to training in general skills and then giving the classes unique specialized skills related to that profession.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dw
Posts until end: 800


Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Posts: 218

PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2005 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stant wrote:
DarkHydra wrote:
Games need not follow D&D, it is not an authority on what should or shouldn't be.

No, but with over 30 years of adjusting and tweeking, it makes a far better system then all these crappy little ones that come and go with each game that anybody makes.


And after 30 years they still think that heavy armor makes one dodge better :pppp
For the original topic, all I want is that we wouldn't have those idiotic restrictions such as "you need 165 agility to wield this dagger" or "you need 215 agility to wield the same dagger when it's poisoned" ¦þ
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hawkeye
Posts until end: 980


Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 30
Location: North of the North Pole

PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2005 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And you also needed agility to wear a Feathered cap. Plus, the fact that you needed to be stronger (more strength) to wear the cap if you found a coloured Feather was just a funny thing. "Oh no! It's a COLOURED FEATHER! And it's put on a cap! It's too heavy for me!" Laughing
Actually, you can't make the game so that a newbie use a poisoned dagger at the beginning. That's close to cheating.
there must be some restrictions from using some weapons. Upgrading was a nice thing. (The fact that you had to hunt for coins to get a Quality Shortsword, was a nice way of getting better weapons.)
_________________
"So it wasn't that way after all."
"Oh my Gosh. Running Zombies! Though they look like Polish Hookers to me."
- Noble Prize Winner of Stupidity 2004.

-- Manatheater.com. Not my own website, but a cool one. Visit when you need a smile or two.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Stant
Posts until end: 500


Joined: 02 Dec 2004
Posts: 753

PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dw wrote:
And after 30 years they still think that heavy armor makes one dodge better :pppp


I don't know what you're playing but I know for a fact that all armors limit your max Dex bonus, heavy armors have the lowest max bonus, that limits the bonus you get to reflex, which is the saving throw you use for dodging.

If you're referring to defensive AC being higher, you're making the wrong assumption about it. It doesn't make you dodge better, it makes weapons that would hurt you wearing lighter armors not hurt you. Someone throws a dagger at your back, you stand a much better chance of not being stabbed by that dagger wearing heavy plate versus wearing leather. The wording a DM uses is important in this case, because for simplicity most DM's say the hit missed, when what they're really trying to say is that the hit connected, it just had no effect because your armor deflected the blow.
_________________
This change isn't because of Kal's request to change it, it's to tell the community that I'm pissed at him because he fucked me over by not sticking up for me when he should have, instead he blasted me. I have no problem with Daria or any of it's other staff. It was changed in response to his lies about fixing it, which he did NOT do.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hawkeye
Posts until end: 980


Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 30
Location: North of the North Pole

PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A nice add-in to DoD could be to have light AND heavy armor.
Knights, Paladins and Fighters would need to wear heavy armor. Not to evade more (I'd like to see one that evades an arrow when he carries a 50kg armor.), but to handle a few sword attacks and some arrows.
The other alternate way could be more useful for the more agile characters; Thieves and Rangers. They use leather (and other light) armor, making it easier for them to evade attacks. And IF they actually get hit once in a while, leather armor does at least produce some defence.
_________________
"So it wasn't that way after all."
"Oh my Gosh. Running Zombies! Though they look like Polish Hookers to me."
- Noble Prize Winner of Stupidity 2004.

-- Manatheater.com. Not my own website, but a cool one. Visit when you need a smile or two.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Dw
Posts until end: 800


Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Posts: 218

PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stant: I based my judgement on games which are based on D&D (ie, baldur's gate) where the guys dodge the blows more often with a lower ac (2nd ed) :P
Guess I should go burn Black Isle studios instead.. no wait, black isle no longer exists. Damn!
*burns himself for sheer stupidness*
</offtopic>
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Dawn of Daria Forum Index -> Inventors of Daria All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 3 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

Style by Oxeye Game Studio