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Writing system? - R
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Tyrael
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Joined: 24 Dec 2004
Posts: 21
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2004 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

*agrees with Enq/Stant*

The best way to choose a council would definitely be through the roleplaying forums. Just adding agreement.
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Demonslayer7
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Joined: 18 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2004 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AS for word count, that could turn out very badly because someone could make a book by doing this:
lol pwned losar lol pwned losar lol pwned losar lol pwned losar lol pwned losar lol pwned losar lol pwned losar lol pwned losar lol pwned losar lol pwned losar lol pwned losar lol pwned losar lol pwned losar lol pwned losar lol pwned losar lol pwned losar lol pwned losar lol pwned losar lol pwned losar lol pwned losar lol pwned losar lol pwned losar lol pwned losar lol pwned losar lol pwned losar lol pwned losar lol pwned losar lol pwned losar (etc...)

As for libraries, no one would submit their stories to places they couldn't be paid for. They would just post them here or some other Daria site.

As for the pricing/council system, I understand. I have been rejected many times before by reviewers about my stories, photo manips, or music. It's something you just have to deal with. It's hard, I know, but eventually you do have to say 'Yeah, this is nice, but you could have worked harder. Sorry, we aren't putting this on the shelf.'

And the books wouldn't buy/sell for too much. For every book sold, the author gets a very small amount paid to him/her. So you could sell very low priced books but be able to make a living off in-game writing. Very Happy
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Tyrael
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Joined: 24 Dec 2004
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Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2004 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To counter the word count nebbish problem is the quote. If the player can see a random quote from the book before buying there si much less chance that they will buy a noobish book. The other option, that would probably cause processer problems or something, is to only count words that exist in a dictionary.

Why wouldn't people submit stories to a library? People don't always do things only for money... and those who are are just looking for a payoff, probably arent doing great writing anyway. Writing is for fun and enjoyment and this would be the satisfaction that your work is good enough to be "officially" included in the game and possibly even used in the developement of world history.

The reason I didnt extend council... responsibilites to the independant book stores is that, frankly, it's too much. Their hands would be full with just the public library without having to deal with every single person's every writing.
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Demonslayer7
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Joined: 18 Dec 2004
Posts: 112

PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tyrael wrote:
To counter the word count nebbish problem is the quote. If the player can see a random quote from the book before buying there si much less chance that they will buy a noobish book. The other option, that would probably cause processer problems or something, is to only count words that exist in a dictionary.

Why wouldn't people submit stories to a library? People don't always do things only for money... and those who are are just looking for a payoff, probably arent doing great writing anyway. Writing is for fun and enjoyment and this would be the satisfaction that your work is good enough to be "officially" included in the game and possibly even used in the developement of world history.

The reason I didnt extend council... responsibilites to the independant book stores is that, frankly, it's too much. Their hands would be full with just the public library without having to deal with every single person's every writing.

I think the library would be pretty bare if no one got paid for submitting things.

Without a council of reviewers this is how the shelves would look:
Tomorrow beckons (5,490 words) 6gp
LOLLOLPWNED (10 words) 60gp
LOLLOLPWNED (10 words) 60gp
LOLLOLPWNED (10 words) 60gp
LOLLOLPWNED (10 words) 60gp
LOLLOLPWNED (10 words) 60gp
Legacy of the lost (7,125 words) 8gp
HEHEHE (6,000,000,000 words) 10,000gp
HEHEHE (6,000,000,000 words) 10,000gp
HEHEHE (6,000,000,000 words) 10,000gp
HEHEHE (6,000,000,000 words) 10,000gp
HEHEHE (6,000,000,000 words) 10,000gp
HEHEHE (6,000,000,000 words) 10,000gp
secret_cheats (450 words) .001gp
7 (3 words) 0gp
HEHEHE (6,000,000,000 words) 10,000gp
HEHEHE (6,000,000,000 words) 10,000gp
HEHEHE (6,000,000,000 words) 10,000gp
HEHEHE (6,000,000,000 words) 10,000gp
HEHEHE (6,000,000,000 words) 10,000gp

Yeah, that looks about right.
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Manifold
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Joined: 01 Dec 2004
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Location: Treading my dreams, UK

PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe just.. get stories that have been moderated in Elders in Daria into libraries. People can read them in there if they want to, just for a more roleplaying feel.
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Tyrael
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Joined: 24 Dec 2004
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Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Demonslayer7 wrote:

Without a council of reviewers this is how the shelves would look:
Tomorrow beckons (5,490 words) 6gp
LOLLOLPWNED (10 words) 60gp
LOLLOLPWNED (10 words) 60gp
LOLLOLPWNED (10 words) 60gp
LOLLOLPWNED (10 words) 60gp
LOLLOLPWNED (10 words) 60gp
Legacy of the lost (7,125 words) 8gp
HEHEHE (6,000,000,000 words) 10,000gp
HEHEHE (6,000,000,000 words) 10,000gp
HEHEHE (6,000,000,000 words) 10,000gp
HEHEHE (6,000,000,000 words) 10,000gp
HEHEHE (6,000,000,000 words) 10,000gp
HEHEHE (6,000,000,000 words) 10,000gp
secret_cheats (450 words) .001gp
7 (3 words) 0gp
HEHEHE (6,000,000,000 words) 10,000gp
HEHEHE (6,000,000,000 words) 10,000gp
HEHEHE (6,000,000,000 words) 10,000gp
HEHEHE (6,000,000,000 words) 10,000gp
HEHEHE (6,000,000,000 words) 10,000gp

Yeah, that looks about right.


The store shelves would look something like that, yes. Minus one thing. The insane money. Simply put, there would be a low maximum price. No one will buy a book for 10,000 gp. The absolute maximum would be something like 50 gp. Heck, maybe even lower.

Also, I don't particularly like the store either. I tried to think of how it could be done out of a want that seemed to exist in the rest of topic and an attempt to make a publice library(if such thing ever will exist) seem more.. real as it would provide an outlet for character stories and stories that don't necessarily fit into the world.

Hmm.. maybe another way to counter the problem of countless noob books is to also have cost for making the book. Basically, not only is the selling price determined by word but the cost to make it.
This probably wouldn't work though... although a simple consistent cost for paper and ink would make sense.

Demonslayer7 wrote:

I think the library would be pretty bare if no one got paid for submitting things.


If it is such a stretch to think that people would actually sumbit stories without being paid, (hmm... maybe like the roleplaying forums? We definitely get paid to do that!) it isn't difficult to give the reviewers power to reward stories(again with a low limit, but higher than just submitting stories).
And people getting paid doesn't mean the library will be stocked full. All it means is that people will be submitting the HEHEHE(60,000 words) crap to the council of reviewers. The library would end up being just as bare in the end, because most of the stories submitted would not make it in. You don't put everyone's random stories into a library.
By making it non-profit, you make the job of the reviewers a lot easier. And if Akarra was any example, that's a good thing. Simply put, the council will likely work through the same amount of submissions each week no matter how many there are. Players are lazy and aren't going to spend hours sorting through the submissions of everyone who wrote a half-ass story in 5 minutes in hope of a little extra cash. Plus, some... communication with the devs would be necessary for the stories to actually make it ingame(or some moderator power for those on the council).

Manifold wrote:

Maybe just.. get stories that have been moderated in Elders in Daria into libraries. People can read them in there if they want to, just for a more roleplaying feel.


This would probably be the easiest and simplest solution. Essentially, this is the same as the place for submitting becomes Elders in Daria. The devs should be spending time on other things, so some sort of council-type would still need to exist....
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Demonslayer7
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2005 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry for the delay, but I thought this was necessary. I think this should be the way it works, in steps plain and simple:

1 - Authors can write books buy typing them in a common word processor and saving them as they type. They transfer the text documents (or transfer the text within by copy and pasting to a form or something) to an online server via an external program (maybe a fan-made app). The files or stories show up as books (not able to be sold) in-game.

2 - Authors pay 'a council of reviewers' a small in-game fee to review their book.

3 - The council of reviewers checks to see whether or not the book is spam or fits other conditions specified by the developers.

4 - If the book is not spam or doesn't break any other rules, the book is priced according to length. I don't know how much a GP will be worth in Daria, but let's just say something like 1gp for every 100 words.

5 - The books now receive some sort of code 'stamp of approval' on the book server (previously mentioned) and they are sold in npc-ran book stores througout Daria. I think authors should probably receive about 75% of the profit gained from each book sold, while the other 25% goes to the council of reviewers.

This way, everyone who deserves to sell books sells them, books that deserve to be read are bought, writers can make a living in-game, and the reviewers get money as well.
If you have noticed, the council doesn't have to work as hard as the writers so the writers get paid more. I hope that system makes more sense.
I don't know how Daria is about this stuff, but I have seen server communication similiar to this in games like Runescape and Soldat. If this gets as popular as say - Runescape, fans will be lining up to make apps for it. Very Happy
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Enquillion
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drop it. Drop setting a price by length. Drop it.

People will add pointless sentences, be over-elaborate and so on, and so on. Drop it.

That said, the price would have to be manually determined and the ups and downs have been mentioned, so I still don't like the system at all.
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Talonz
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2005 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After reading I've made a few ideas about how I think the process of "publicating" a story should work in daria. Also remember that there can be "nonfiction" books...heh, if you know what I mean. Detailed explanations on how to efficiently use the interface, a detailed description of bekarthon the lord of the western gate and how to interpret his sayings, etc. Things like that.

I don't think it's a matter of "deserving" to sell books, it's a matter of "wanting" to sell books. If you are able to write decent stories, short or long, no matter how well-known you are, you should be able to as long as you have the money. Since this hasn't been brought up yet, I think the devs should come up for severe restrictions with submitted books, or restriction from submitting at all, if you are caught plagorizing.

1. Author writes the book. They go to a publisher office, which can only be found in cities (not the smaller towns). They go talk to the NPC, she explains the rules. No real-world content, no extremely foul language, etc. They fill out a form with different fields such as "Title, "Genre, chosen from a drop down list," "Body text," "Author comments," "One paragraph summary for library," etc. For body you should expect a crappy editor, at least with some formatting such as colors...you might like to use tags like for forums do for this feature (I know that akarra couldn't acheive bold/italicized words with the font).

A message at the bottom shows how much the book should cost to create, materialistically. It should start with a set amount, and then increase in price for every 200 or so words. After everything is filled out, they are notified of the price it will cost to send this through. It should not be cheap however, since real life books cost quite a lot to publish. You can't just write a book and go get it approved and everything for a measly amount of money. User clicks submit, the price is deducted from their total amount on-hand (if they don't have enough obviously they can't do it), and it's sent to #2.

2. This is immediately passed to a reviewer. Like enquillion and stant suggested, the reviewer should probably be a writer in the Elders of Daria section. If a reviewer submitted their own book though, be aware that they still have to have a different reviewer to check it. All the reviewers do is check for quality and content. To make sure that it's in a readable format, proper grammar, etc. They don't critique, they don't have the power to fix/correct anything. If there are mistakes in the writing, so be it, the book won't sell as many copies. This is just to stop people from taking advantage of the people making bad books for the hell of it.

3. Once the book is accepted, and approved of actually being a book, the author is notified in some manner to return to the publications offine. They go back, and are told they need to create the book. The price is the one that was listed in step #1, the price needed to actually create it. Once they have created a set number of books, they set up an ordering price (I don't know what you call these). The library now "sees" this book.

4. A short-hand edition is added to the public library. The library does not contain the full texts, only say the first 10% of the story, the first 200 words. It also includes the one paragraph summary that the author submitted (read #1). So what happens is the public, or shopkeepers who are planning to order some of the books goes to the library to determine if they would be interesting in purchasing or ordering them. It's not a full-on library, but they didn't have libraries back then anyways, heh. There would need to be a way to organize the library. Sections perhaps organized by their genre like public libraries are. In the section/row you have a sprite for each letter of the alphabet in that genre, that way you can quickley find books based on the author's name. "I want to find Mutation by Talonz, lets go to research section and then look at the T section." I think the A's/B's/C's/etc should be grayed out until something is added (eventually most will be filled, so this will get more efficient as time progresses).

5. Different booksellers, shops, etc, that are licensed to be these (they need to be licensed so normal users can't just go and straight off buy them from the author, heh) will buy the books from the author, in whatever quantity they want that the author has in stock. They can then go to their own shops and sell the books they purchased for whatever price they want.

6. When a book is purchased, it's added to the purchaser's inventory and it fills a whole entire spot. Right click it, or some other mannter, should allow them to read it. The book is treated as an item though it can't be dropped onto the ground, looted, sold, etc: it's treated like a quest item used to be treated. If the person has a home, they can purchase a bookshelf, which can hold say 10 books at a minimum. They can upgrade their book shelf at, lets say 5 book increments, to hold more books. This elimates the problem of carrying books around in your backpack. They can be added/removed/etc. It's simply put, a cheap bank that can only store books. Other storage things in your house (lets say a closet) can hold the books, but those would be more expensive to create, thus less worthwhile to store the books in. ^^
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Enquillion
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2005 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like it, but make the bookshelf storage infinite. Books are only to add a roleplayish touch... they don't give you a bonus or so.
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