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In Depth Systems

 
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Kest
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 7:35 am    Post subject: In Depth Systems Reply with quote

I kinda need Enquillion for this post to really be the same as it was oh so long ago. Ages back, he and I in a non-organized collaberation came up with some great ways that have low-end programming costs, but make the game very unique in compare to other similar games, and realistic to physics with the assumption of magic.

Some of the basic things, were Armor Materials in relation to elemental effects. In example, metal is conductive. (Big duh there.) When a person wearing metal armor is hit with focused electricity, be it a weapon with electricity damage added, or a lightning bolt spell from a mage, metal armor should cause more damage for the target. In contrast, some cloths are anti-conductive to electricity, such as some treated leathers, thick rubber, and even very dense padding. These would slightly, as in .3% or so, reduce lightning damage taken by same said effects.

Other concepts we derived in our 9-billion post discussions were weapon types versus armor types. Again, low-end programming costs, with great realistic results. I would like to see leather armor stop a maul from collapsing one of your lungs. To sum this up in a simple programming term, weapon type vs armor type would create an adjustment variable to the hit/miss rate, damage reduction, etc. Chainmail could be cut easily, withstand a bit of impact, and be bypassed by piercing weapons. (Arrows, Rapiers, daggers, etc.) This is, afterall, the reason the armored Knights became obsolete in Medieval warfare. The Longbow could mince their chain and plate armor making it provide nothing more than a movement hinderance. All things to be greatly considered in weapon/armor balance.

We also discussed a system of seperating Accuracy, Evasion, Power, and Defense. (This one is a lot trickier to program and balance, but the posibilities would make it very unique in a fundamental level.) In Dungeons and Dragons, and the old Akarra, your Armor Class was a collaboration of your armor and your agility, making a mesh of two completely different things result in the same variable. When your armor class was high enough for the creature to 'miss' you, there was the message 'such n such missed.' What I'm wondering, is how metal armor miraculously enabled you to dodge more? *Insane laughter*

However, if you could balance a system that had the attack roll's accuracy be focused only at the target's ability to avoid the hit (This could include agility to dodge, parry to block the blow, and a shield's ability to completley intercept a blow from time to time.) Then, the armor would serve it's realistic function. I.E. armor only reduces the impact and lethal effects of weapons. It does NOT make you dodge more. This basically results in the reduction of damage by armor when a blow is taken by the target. The ability and chance of a blow completely glancing off the slopes and curves of the armor would be represented by the damage reduction reducing the attack so low that it nearly completely nulls the effects of the attack.

Just an onslaught of ideas to toy with. Maybe Enq can remember more of them we discussed, and anyone else with similar ideas on the fundamental systems are welcome to post as well. ^^
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Enquillion
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I could only find this. Not sure if I've been that involved, might have been on IRC. Well eh, that will do for now, need a nap.
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Kest
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 8:59 am    Post subject: Haha Reply with quote

Thanks Enq, but there were other posts where we also discussed magical effects on armor and such somewhere. Anywho, I hope DoD is much more in depth than the blandness that most MMORPGs rely on.
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Archosseus
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 10:12 am    Post subject: Great Reply with quote

Great idea.

Not only is this realistic but it also is original compared to other MMORPG's. Though say if there's a piece of armor, light, thats enchanted to enhance the wearers moving ability then it would still count as it was in Akarra. Though non-enchanted just plain armor it truly is rather unrealistic that it gives a bonus to dodging since how can something that makes the player slower (realisticly seen) make him move faster while it is left unenchanted.

It should infact make the player slower (if you haven't covered this) according to the weight of the armor. I know there wasn't any weight meter in Akarra, and i personally would like to keep it that way but armor should have a weight, although not really needing to show it.

In example:
Heavy armor(30/50 weight) gives you a penalty to your dodging ability
Medium armor(15/30) leaves your dodging unchanged
Light armor(1/15) gives you a minor bonus according the same as the heavy armor's penalty.
The strength attribute should counter the penalties since it represents physical muscle. In example:

A knight can wear Heavy Armor with a lesser penalty then a stealth based character would since he is specialized in Strength.
Stealth based characters (a rogue, assassin and their ilk) specialize in light armor so their bonus for wearing that armor gives them a great bonus then when a different armor based character would wear it. Like this:

Knight, strength based
- Heavy armor +2 dodge
- Medium armor 0 dodge
- Light armor +2 dodge

Light armor is light by nature, so the bonus everyone gets automaticly. Heavy armor though, is heavy by nature and you need a good amount of strength to be capable of wearing it with effectiveness.

Rogue, agility/stealth based
- Heavy armor -7 dodge
- Medium armor +4 dodge
- Light armor +10 dodge

Light armor's attribute is Agility
Medium armor's attribute is Agility
Heavy armor's attribute is Strength

Encouraging someone with high strength to wear their armor fit for them and someone agile their own that fit for them. If the rogue is to put points in strength, the -7 dodge lowers. It is not easy to dodge with Heavy Armor so the number required for the bonus/penalty to raise must be higher then it would for Light armor. Say put 20 points in Strength gains you a one point to dodge for HEAVY armor(for the strength based characters). Put 10 points in Agility and you gain one point for LIGHT armor(stealth based). It would cost more points for a stealth to raise their Heavy armor effectiveness and it would cast more points for a strength one to raise their Light armor effectiveness. I could go on about this for hell, but i think you'll get the point by now. ^^
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Manifold
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a different angle. Since we may not want Daria to have a very realistic battle engine, we may want to keep more elements to the fantasy-atmosphere of this game.

Maybe all metals in Daria are naturally imbued with magic. That is, when crafted into weapons and armour, they gift the user with more agility than we would think possible (from a realistic point of view) but what the hell, this is fantasy. Or they could resist damage more than would seem decent.
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Dw
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eh manifold BDD
I'd rather have the heavy armors resist a lot of damage than have that unrealistic "hey I'm wearing 1000kg of metal, you can't hit me" -shit.
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Lorsaelos
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just posting to show my support for this idea. Realism is good (though not too much as to make the game unfun.)
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Enquillion
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I couldn't find the discussion among the first 12 pages of the Wishing forum. Argh. Anyway, I overheard a conversation between Khaile and thewreck (before the project was announced) about a similar system (place your bets on which Daria News reporter will post this rumor first), it was very well thought out. Maybe we'll see it in Daria, maybe not, but until we get a playable release, I'll be quiet about it.

Edit: Bets on Ransk.
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Thanquol
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This actually makes me PLEASED to see Kest back Wink

I, in my infinate knowledge of ultimate skilldom, guess that DoD will incorporate a certain amount of this already without our input - but i'd love to see lots more. Some realism, as Lorsaelos stated, will annoy us (such as armour reducing walking speed) but some of this is required and certainly alot more has to be done to the combat engine. I want some agility bonuses, TBH could do with the extra help.
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